Reflecting on Israel/Palestine Debate: Grumpy Groyper Lawrence Roche, aka Laurence of Europa

Lawrence Roche, Grumpy Groyper

                                                            

On October 30th, 2024, I had a debate on the broad Arab-Israeli conflict with Nick Taurus of Laguna Hills.

We had debated the topic last year:

Nick wanted to bring me back to discuss the issue again, this time in a public forum before an audience. Yes, the debate was recorded, too:

I wrote some brief comments about the debate last month, but now I have time to comment on one key issue that erupted--disrupted--the debate.

And that was the grumpy moderator, Lawrence Roche:

Grumpy Groyper tipped his hand
in the Arab-Israel debate with Nick Taurus

He also goes by the name Lawrence of Europa. Seriously. That is the name that he uses on Instagram. 

He is a rabid anti-Zionist, and after you read his comments below, we can safely conclude that he is an anti-Semite, as well. Of course, it's getting more difficult to separate the two.

He was charged with moderating my debate with Nick Taurus on October 30th, 2024.

He was an immoderate man who repeatedly interrupted me and shouted at me and others in the audience. He was tipping his hand from the beginning, and that is understandable.

However, that did not stop me from speaking the truth.

He allowed a member of the audience to argue and interrupt me, when everyone was supposed to be quiet and listen once they asked a question. He told me to be a "debater" and let him run the debate, which he did not do very well.

Here is the lowest of lowlights of this immoderate moderator: (Click here)

During the Question and Answer period fromteh audience, I confronted Andrew the JQ guy about his reference to the Lavon Affair. During that exchange, Roche jumped in to stop me from speaking. At that point, Nick and I had tacitly understood that we could answer questions posed to us and respond to other questions or comments previously. But Lawrence did not like my confronting and correcting Andrew regarding his hostility to Israel!

It got better, of course, because when I called him out on it!

Roche Interrupting me

You will notice in the last video, Nick Taurus literally had to moderate this Moderator: "Let him finish!"

Yes. The moderator lost his cool. He could not control himself, and he felt justified interrupting the debate.

What is this?

What I have noticed is that this interruption culture is a constant with pro-Palestinian acolytes. They do not want to debate this issue fairly. The moderators all too often tip their hands. The only time I have seen an experienced and effective moderator was the debate between Robert Barnes and Nick Fuentes on InfoWars. 

At the beginning of the debate, I had given Grumpy Groyper Lawrence the benefit of the doubt. Nick Taurus invited and expected two moderators, but the pro-Zionist moderator did not show up.

At the end of it all, I am glad that I could debate sometimes three people at once.

When I posted the debate on Instagram the next day, Lawrence Roche swept in and pushed his short-lived revisionism:

Here's his entire rant, in an attempt to justify himself:

You're a liar, Schaper. The debate hall & atmosphere was very fair & you had every accommodation afforded to you. So much so that after the meeting you took home all the remaining food without it first being offered to you! What a leach [sic]! And yes, I stood & watched this transpire. lol

This guy is supposed to be an educator, and he spells "leech" wrong. Also, Nick and his team offered to let me take food home, or it would have been thrown away, so there's that. Notice that he does not discuss the substance of any issues, but just attacks people personally. Why? Because he has no facts or basis for criticizing someone.

Schaper kvetched: "The moderator would fight with me, but I learned from @jdvance how to fight back, and even Nick took my side at one point."

All of this is true. JD Vance had to debate Tim Walz and two moderators during the Vice-Presidential debate earlier that month. During the last question of my debate with Taurus, I had to fend off Lawrence, Andrew (the JQ conspiracist) as well as Nick.

No one was fighting you Schaper, just attempting to counter your disruptive behaviour. So I did, as I did with the Barking Jews you brought as your "cheering" section (cheering, as in loudly barking & interrupting Nick). I had to forcefully overpower your attempts to disrupt the debate & shut it down.

See the videos for yourself. He argued with me, and he got upset when I called him out for not enforcing the rules of the debate. Grumpy Groyper literally interrupted me when I called out Andrew over the Lavon Affair. There was no justification for that, and Nick Taurus had to correct Roche and tell him to calm down. When members of the audience interrupted me, Roche didn't care. In contrast, when members of the audience chimed in or asked if they could clarify or add to the discussion, I told them that they could not. And some of those people were my guests, but even then I did not let them break the decorum.

Of course, who can ignore Grumpy's rant in his comment above: "Barking Jews." Seriously.  We are talking about a grown man here, and he is writing such dreck. Besides, most of my guests were not Jews, and I knew five of the people in the audience. Everyone else was a new face tome.

Roche is physically grown, but not matured, to say the least. That is a common trait among pro-Palestinian agitators. They don't display emotional maturity (or intelligence).

Content-wise, you were pathetically comical as all Zionists are when trying to justify the GENOCIDE going on in Gaza today. Your retarded, long ago de-bunked Dennis Praeger-tier takes will live forever as comedy gold(stein). My favorite moment? Perhaps it was when you praised Israel's strategy of bombing hospitals in Gaza! Typical depraved Zionist morality.

When someone uses "genocide" to denigrate Israelis protecting themselves, you know that that person has completely lost the argument. He loves to talk about Dennis Prager, whose name he misspelled. Nick told me that Roche was an educator. I think his students should sue him for breach of contract.

I am glad the videos are out & about for all to see, so please refrain from editing them!

Yes, indeed, I have not edited the videos at all. I encourage everyone to watch them. A number of people commented a month after the debate that they liked what I had to say, they enjoyed the debate, and they complimented me on standing for truth.

FREE SPEECH DEBATE: Arab-Israeli Conflict (Nick Taurus v. Arthur Schaper)

                      

Here's my full debate with Nick Taurus, a pro-Palestinian Trump supporter from Orange County, CA.

Some people consider that an oxymoron. How can someone support the Palestinian movement, since so many of them are Leftists? Of course, his side, and many of his supporters, counter that Israel and Zionism are the greatest threat 

The debate took place at the Laguna Hills Community Center on Wednesday, October 30th, 2024.

Nick reached out to me in the middle of Summer 2024. He was hoping to pair me off against another anti-Zionist speaker. He reached out to a number of left-leaning, pro-Palestinian groups, but none of them would step up.

I was glad to step in and stand for truth, stand for Israel, and expose the truth about the so-called Palestinian movement.

This was not as daunting a task, since I had debated Nick on the Arab-Israeli conflict shortly after the October 7th, 2023 Hamas massacre:

             

For the October 30th, 2024 debate, Nick provided all the questions in advance, which was great, since that gesture allowed both of us to study, research, and prepare more effectively.

He also provided ground rules, which included no interruptions. I admit that that is my weak point. CRINGE! It's true, and I can laugh at myself about that.

There were supposed to be two moderators, a pro-Zionist and an anti-Zionist, but the pro-Zionist could not make it at the last minute.

Lawrence of Europa served as the moderator, and like CBS or NBC moderators, he broke the rules and interrupted me a few times, but that conflict did not stop me from speaking out.

Some of my friends joined the event, including Rachelle Mand, a Persian Jew who fled Iran before the Ayatollah took over. Keith Hardine of South Los Angeles, John Willis of Upland (both former members of We the People Rising), and Eli Komai of the John Birch Society also attended.

It was a pleasant surprise to see Eli, who is also a friend of Nick Taurus.

GROUP PHOTOS!

The debate was fun!

It was great to stand for truth, to refute a lot of the anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist talking points.

Nick was definitely the more reserved debater, standing behind the podium the whole time. I was more active, moving around a great deal. I don't recall any rules of decorum regarding our behavior, so there is that.

I really enjoyed stepping forward and speaking to the audience directly. For the first time in a long time, I felt really confident about this subject. It was good to interact with people.

Nick referenced a great deal of books, resources, and authors. That did not bother me, since truth is truth, and if lots of information is based on a false premise, everything else is invalidated. I also referenced some books, websites, and authors. I will say this much: I want to work on memorizing more names and more sources for future debates.

Let me get the worst and the missed opportunities out of the way:

• Nick pointed out that there are Jewish people in the Biden Administration who are part of the open borders agenda. But who put them there? Joe Biden! I should have responded to that, but there were so many other things I wanted to respond to.
• He talked a great deal about "Jewish" NGOs pushing mass migration and open borders. Who funds them, though? Most of the funding comes from rich white liberal Gentiles.
• He mentioned the Appollo Affair. Yawn. I had challenged that in the last debate, in which independent American and Israeli investigations confirmed that Schlomo Solomon did not steal any uranium. A third party, Seymour Hersh, did his own investigation and wrote his findings in The Sampson Option.
• I neglected to point out that Amin al-Husseini, the grand Mufti of Jerusalem, along with other Arab interests in the Middle East and Muslims in Southeastern Europe, collaborated with the Nazis to exterminate the Jews in Europe instead of expelling them to the Middle East.

Some of the best moments (for me) in the debate:

• Pointing out that Israeli police officers arrest hyper-Orthodox Jews when they spit at Christians. That fact deflated the whole talking point from the anti-Zionists in the audience.
• Using the phrase "so-called Palestinians" and undermining the legacy and veracity of that term. It felt really good to inform the audience that Zionist founders like Golda Meir and David Ben-Gurion were also Palestinians!
• Not breaking a sweat when one of the anti-Zionist members of the audience asked me about the Haavera Transfer Agreement. At that moment, I had not heard of that phrase, although I know that Hilter initially wanted to expel the Jews to the Middle East. Instead of getting flustered, I got to the heart of the issue: "Do you think that justifies pushing 6 million Jews into ovens?" I also stated, "Whatever that is, that does not delegitimize Israel." That's what all these obscure references are really all about.
• Refuting the "Dancing Israelis" conspiracy by using the phrase "Dancing Palestinians." I wanted to underscore the reality that it's the so-called Palestinians and their Arab/Muslim allies who are harming this country. I really thank God for having that phrase on the tip of my tongue.
• Referencing Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, who served in a foreign military in order to supporting allow American citizens to serve in Congress. Nick acknowledged that point as a good counter-argument, and I respect that.
• Repeating the fact that Israel offered the so-called Palestinians a state FIVE TIMES. None on the Pro-Palestinian side can bellyache about fairness or lack of return, when so-called Palestinian leaders just want to push the Jews into the sea.

My favorite moment was turning the tables on a groyper wearing an American Flag jacket during the Question and Answer period. I think his name was Andrew, although I could be wrong. He referenced the Lavon Affair, which is a common anti-Zionist talking point. He went off about the USS Liberty, which I had mentioned before he did. He tried to interrupt me a few times, but I was relentless in pushing back on the anti-Zionist tropes. 

I really like that I held him accountable for exploiting those veterans, and I also like that I could get the truth out about Lyndon Baines Johnson, one of the most consequential--and the worst--Presidents in our country's history.

Frankly, I think that the biggest problem for many of these anti-Zionist guys is that people simply do not let them talk, and they do not respond with simple facts or evidence. People get easily offended because of the controversial nature of the subject and just shut off all discussion. That is not the way to win (back) hearts and minds.

I liked that I was able to confront other anti-Semitic conspiracy theories in the audience, and Lawrence could not stop me. The whole situation reminded me of JD Vance, when he confronted the CBS moderator for "fact-checking" him, when the corporate media moderators were just lying. Nick backed me up when the moderator got out of line, which helped a great deal.

Post-debate was great, too. A number of people came up to me and thanked me for coming, including the pro-Palestinian groyper (?) wearing an American flag on his jacket. He came up to me and shook my hand, praising me for stepping into hostile territory and taking a stand for Israel.

I let him share his views on "The Jews did 9-11," and I was able to refute his arguments. 

              

 I think it's quite telling that during the Question and Answer period, Nick did not want to spend too much time responding to his question about invading and destroying Israel. Even for anti-Zionists, the American-Flag jacket guy's arguments were way too much!

Nick was very magnanimous and praised me efforts after the debate. I am grateful that I could come and speak up, too!